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Tanya Cushman Reviewer

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Tanya Cushman Reviewer

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Hello. I was at a wedding this weekend, and it was in New York, and there were a bunch

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of trendy people there. And I was talking to someone who I'd never met before, and I told

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him I was prepping for this presentation. And he was like, oh, that's cool. Like, what's

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the conference about? And I said it was about AI engineering. And I could just see his eyes

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glaze over and he started like looking behind me to find the next person to talk to and

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it's like so cool to actually be in a room full of people who actually want to hear about

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this stuff. So I'm very excited to be here. I am the co-founder of Conductor. Has anyone

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here used Conductor? Okay, nice, nice. Okay, cool. So for those who don't know, Conductor

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is a desktop app for managing a team of coding agents all at the same time. So instead of

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having a bunch of terminal windows for your cloud codes, your codexes, or your whatever

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coding agent, you have one interface to manage them all. And one of the really cool things

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about Building Conductor has been that I've seen a lot of the best builders up close.

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I've watched their workflow, I've seen how they work, I've seen the things they do do

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and the things that they avoid doing, and so I thought I would compile a bunch of the

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principles that I've seen the best engineers use and give them to you all.

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So here's what Conductor looks like. Can you guys see this? Okay, nice. Okay. So here's

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what Conductor looks like and here are my principles for being the fastest builder in

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your organization. So let's start with number one, stay near the frontier. Staying near

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Near the frontier means you are always trying the latest things, basically the day they

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come out. It means that when UltraCode comes out, you're trying it. It means that when

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SlashGoal comes out, you're giving it a go. It's really important to stay near the frontier

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for a few reasons. If you are doing your own startup, then staying near the frontier means

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that you will come up with lots of new ideas for what you should actually be building.

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This literally happened to us.

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We were building a totally different app called Chorus,

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but we started using, we were such power users of Cloud

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Code back in February of last year

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that we started building our whole workflow around Cloud

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Code, and we started cloning our repo five times,

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and then we discovered work trees, and then bit by bit,

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we had built Conductor as an internal tool.

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And we couldn't have figured that out

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if we weren't staying near the frontier.

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And if you're not doing a startup,

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you should be the person at your company

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who always knows what the latest workflows are.

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It used to be that you could just kind of

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like use your social graph and the information

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that was important about the best workflows to use

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would trickle down to you.

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But things just like move way too fast now.

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You're always gonna be three to six months behind

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if you do that.

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So it's very important to stay near the frontier.

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And there's an important word here, near.

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There is a danger if you are at the frontier.

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You can do what I call midwip memeing,

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where you're spending all of your time

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working on your workflow and not doing actual work.

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And so internally we've come up with a heuristic for this.

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We call it don't beat the market.

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Don't try and beat the market.

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The concept here, the heuristic you should use

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when you're trying to decide if you're near the frontier

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or at the frontier and too deep into the latest trends

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is you should ask yourself,

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why isn't this workflow the default?

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So for example, when route loops were becoming a big thing,

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you should ask yourself, like,

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should I spend a ton of time optimizing my workflow

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to work with route loops?

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Because if route loops work for everyone,

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like if they are the default,

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then you probably should just wait for Anthropic

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or OpenAI or whatever, to build the workflow

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into the default harness.

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You can think of this as sort of like

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an efficient market hypothesis,

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where unless you have real alpha,

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you shouldn't be optimizing your workflow too much.

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And what I mean by real alpha is some kind of information

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about either your users or your code base

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that the models might not know about.

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So an example for us is, we're a chat app,

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We have to render really long chats really quickly,

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and performance is important to us.

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And so we need to spend a lot of time optimizing our React

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optimizing our React queries to render the chats quickly.

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And we're willing to make sacrifices

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in other parts of our code base to make that happen.

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So if you have some kind of alpha,

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it's like some kind of information

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about the app you're building that the models might not

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know about, then you should put time into the workflow.

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Otherwise, don't be the person who

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has an amazing Emacs setup but doesn't actually

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get stuff done.

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Okay, three, create slot-free zones.

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So, at Conductor, we have this term

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we call a slot-free zone.

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And a slot-free zone is a part of the code base

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or a part of the app that requires

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really strict human review.

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And we're actually, I think, a little bit unusual in this way.

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I think a lot of people assume that we are pure token maxers

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and we are like ripping through like 30,000 line PRs,

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but we're actually not.

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We're actually quite careful with certain parts

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of our code base and then very loose with other parts of our code base.

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The reason this is important is because if you are not careful about your slot free zones,

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your code base can get in a really tricky spot.

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And this actually happened to us.

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We've had to rewrite our whole app like a couple of times because we weren't careful

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about slot free zones.

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Specifically, we have a migrations file.

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And in RCI, any change to the migrations file

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requires a human to review it.

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We also assume that anything written in Slack is slap free.

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It's not written by the AI, it's written by a human.

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All of our docs, our Cloud MDs, all our skills,

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we put a ton of time into making them good.

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And this is also something I've seen

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with all the best builders up close.

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They put an unusual amount of time into the Cloud MD

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their skill files. And I think another way that I've thought about this is like if you

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had a new intern that was joining your company and you had the opportunity to like whisper

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something in their ear every time they started working, like every day, any time they sat

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down you could like whisper something in their ear. You would probably put a lot of thought

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into like what it is that you're whispering in their ear. And this is what the CloudMD

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or AgentsMD is. It's like information that gets loaded into the agent's context every

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every time they start working.

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And so you probably want to put a lot of thought into those.

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Okay, four, feed the beast.

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At Conductor we have a internal tool we call the Conductor

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Internal Agent and it is, we also, also known as the CIA.

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And the CIA is basically like the centralized database of

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everything that's happening in the organization.

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So anytime a new Slack message gets sent, the CIA picks it up.

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The CIA agent will see that a new message sent in Slack,

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it will pick it up and it will save it to a Postgres table.

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Anytime a user has a bug request in Discord, the same thing happens.

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Anytime we have a meeting, we are recording it and it goes into the CIA.

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We call this feed the beast because you want to,

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for your agents to be effective in your company,

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you want them to have as much information and as much context as they can have

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about the way you guys specifically work.

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And the best way to do that is by having a centralized place

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for all the information to go.

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I think this tweet sums it up pretty well.

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It's really effective to just put everything in a database

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and then give your agent a SQL tool

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and let it handle the rest.

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Okay, next is free range agents.

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Give your agents a lot of space to play.

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Give them a sandbox that won't get killed,

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where they can explore your code base,

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where they can work on really hard tasks,

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where they know that they're not going to get shut down

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when you close your laptop lid.

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Give them opportunities to create more of themselves.

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Give them ways to collaborate with other agents

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and other humans.

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I think what's really interesting about free range agents

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and this concept and why this is important

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is the models are getting better

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and they are able to run for much longer

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and there are going to be many more of them.

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And so, if they are confined to your laptop,

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then they're not gonna be nearly as effective

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as if they are free roaming.

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The other thing that's important here

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is that once you give them a sandbox to play in

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that isn't confined to your laptop,

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there's a bunch of really cool stuff

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that you can build on top.

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And we have built some of those things into Conductor.

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And I'll give you a quick glimpse into some

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of those cool things.

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So this is Conductor.

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I'm going to make it a bit bigger.

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And this is actually a new version of Conductor

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that is coming out this week,

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and it is centered around collaboration in the cloud.

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And so the thing I said was you need a sandbox for agents to play.

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You need a free-range agent.

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And so you'll notice that each workspace

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has a little cloud icon at the top,

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and I can click it and get information

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about the sandbox that the agent is running in.

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And what's awesome about this is I can close my laptop

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and the agents are going to keep running.

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Up until basically this week,

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every task in Conductor was built on a Git Work Tree,

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but now they're in a cloud sandbox.

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They are free range agents.

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But what's also really cool that we can build

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on top of cloud is collaboration.

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So you'll see here, I'll make this even bigger.

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That's me.

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And here are a list of the things that I am working on.

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And you can see that I am in the conductor org.

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But if I scroll down, I can see what Caden's working on.

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I can see what Lewis is working on.

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I can see what Tywin is working on.

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And I can see Jackson's face pop up there.

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I can click in and see what he's working on in real time.

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And I think collaboration is one of the most important new

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concepts in these tools that no one is really

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talking about right now. Collaboration is important because not only is it true that

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all great things are built with teams of people, like they're not built by individuals, they're

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built by teams, but also as the models get better, as we've seen this with the two days

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of Fable, you can get a lot more ambitious with the kinds of things you're building.

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And if you're getting more ambitious, you're going to need more people and more agents

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to work on those things. So I'm going to go into a workspace that Caden is working on.

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this one, and I'm gonna say,

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I can review the changes that he's made.

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I'll make this a little smaller.

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And this looks fine, but I'm just gonna say,

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can we actually use tabs, not spaces?

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And Caden should be able to see that message happen in real time,

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and he can actually chat in the workspace as well.

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You see here that he's typing.

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So I see Caden is typing.

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Let's see what he says.

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Seems like he's typing a lot.

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Maybe he stopped typing.

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I'll give him a second to take a look at it.

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But the point is, we can now have collaborative workspaces

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that are shared in real time with people on our team.

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OK, he's typing again.

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OK, come back.

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The agents have escaped.

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All right.

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So I'm really excited about this,

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and we're rolling this out to all Conductor users this week.

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I think collaboration is going to be one

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of the most important new interface changes this year.

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The other really cool thing about Cloud

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is that, and giving the agents the free range sandbox,

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is that we can give the agents APIs to spawn themselves.

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So I have here a, I'll bring up my open claw.

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This is my open claw called Lord Crandon.

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And you can see that it has, I don't

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know how well you can see this text,

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but it has access to a conductor API.

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And so from my phone or from my Telegram

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or from Slack or wherever I am, I can say,

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hi, can you create a new workspace for me

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that makes all the buttons blue?

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And so I'll text that to Lord Crandon,

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and Lord Crandon has access to the conductor API

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and so can kick off work itself.

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So let's see what it does here.

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Okay, so just created the workspace.

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The agent is on it.

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And then I can go into my conductor.

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I'm out and about, but it's still setting up the workspace,

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and it will do work for me while I am gone.

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So I'm pretty excited about all the cool things

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you can build on top of free range agents.

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Okay, the final principle that I want to talk about today, and the title of this talk is

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Orchestras, Not Factories.

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The whole talk track today is about software factories, and I honestly kind of hate the

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term.

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I think it's the wrong way of thinking about these new tools that are emerging.

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think, like, when I think of a factory, I think of automation. And I think of, like,

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there's a lot of amazing things about automation, and like, it makes our lives more efficient,

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and we can, like, create more of everything. But I don't want the future to be built around

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factories. I want the future to, I want to feel like a human. I want to, like, be in

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the flow, I want to be in front of an orchestra, like waving my baton, and I wave it this way,

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and this team of agents starts working, and then this intermingling of humans and agents

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starts working as I go here. And when I want to, I can zoom in on the details, but most

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of the time I can zoom out. And I don't think the future should be we are managing swarms

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of agents, and we are factory line managers, pushing buttons, getting the agents to pump

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out the next feature. We tried this 10 years ago with the term feature factories and it

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just doesn't work. I want my software to feel human and crafted. I want to feel like a human

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at the center of it all. And I think because we're all building these tools, we actually

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have a responsibility to make the tools great for humans. I think it's really important

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to use the words that make us feel excited and feel capable and feel like we're in the

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flow and having fun. And so I don't think the future is something like this. I don't

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want to be in my dark factory. I don't want to be a line manager. I want to feel like

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this. I want to be in the flow. I want to be having fun. I want to be crafting things.

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I want to feel like I'm Steve Jobs designing the Mac with a team of amazing humans and

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AI agents all in the same place. I want to feel like I'm in an orchestra.

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So here are my principles for being the best builder in your organization.

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Stay near the frontier, don't try and beat the market,

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create slot free zones, feed the beast, free range agents, and

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think about orchestras, not factories.

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Came up with this handy acronym for remembering it, stick foe.

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All right, so thanks a ton for having me, I'll be around.

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Feel free to ask questions and I'll see you on the internet.

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Thank you.